|
Post by an anon on Oct 5, 2012 5:37:28 GMT
In their latest posted minutes, the OTW Board said they would soon release a statement summarizing their discussion of meta. It doesn't sound like they've made a decision on whether it should be allowed on AO3.
What do you think should be the policy on meta on the AO3?
|
|
|
Post by Barbara Gordon on Oct 5, 2012 5:43:06 GMT
If we allow fannish original fic, fic of fic, and podfic we should allow fannish meta. I'm really not sure why meta would be so different to "here are my opinions about X in thinly disguised fic form".
|
|
smurf
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by smurf on Oct 5, 2012 6:27:34 GMT
Agreed. It is a type of fanwork, and as far as I can see, there's no reason why allowing meta would be a bad thing in any way. It might even help with boosting a commenting culture on the AO3.
|
|
|
Post by anonniemous on Oct 5, 2012 6:55:49 GMT
Meta should be allowed, but it needs to be separated/easily distinguishable from fic.
|
|
|
Post by E P on Oct 5, 2012 7:16:31 GMT
I don't like the idea.
I write, read, and enjoy meta, but it isn't "fanwork" in the same way that fic, vids, doujin, etc. are. Because either you have to have some standard for What Counts As Proper Meta, which would be impossible to enforce objectively, or you have to open the door to accepting things like this:
People will be basically trying to force the AO3 to behave like their LJ. Or like a Tumblr. Given the state of the freeform tags, it makes sense to have guidelines to pre-empt that from happening.
...It does get more palatable with the "separate it out from fic" stipulation, though. I could go for something along the DeviantArt model -- give each account an attached journal. They can be categorized, commented on, and favorited, but the browsing is separated out, and when subscribing to a user you can choose either or both of their works and their journals.
That might also be the easiest way to work up to the whole multi-fanwork-type setup that's been planned for ages. Meta and fic are both text, so it's not as hard as designing a whole separate interface the way you'd have to do with art, music, or vids.
So, yeah, it could be done in a way that works. But if meta essays are just thrown in the main bin along with fics (and "everything else, but only temporarily, we swear"), honestly, it's going to kill my soul a little inside.
|
|
|
Post by xyz on Oct 5, 2012 10:00:52 GMT
I'm fine with the idea of including meta. Meta is cool.
Sure, some of it will be incoherent and badly written, but it's not like there isn't incoherent and badly written fanfic.
It would be pretty neat, though, if AO3 were able to come up with a nifty way of sorting out fics from meta and vice versa, so that people who dislike meta don't get annoyed.
I'm not sure about E P 's idea of each account having an attached journal (I'm not a deviantart user so I don't have experience with such a system) but it could work and be useful. (though I doubt that in reality the AO3 would be willing to implement such a large change...)
(speaking of rambling and incoherent, I'm kind of being that too... -_-/off to bed)
|
|
|
Post by an0n on Oct 5, 2012 11:08:12 GMT
I agree with xyz. Unless AO3 plans to start moderating which fics meet a certain standard, I see no reason why they have to do the same with meta.
At the very least, I think allowing meta will light a fire under them to actually get sorting for/sorting to avoid different types of fanworks sorted out and working.
|
|
|
Post by Non on Oct 5, 2012 15:59:32 GMT
I don't like the idea. I write, read, and enjoy meta, but it isn't "fanwork" in the same way that fic, vids, doujin, etc. are. Is anthropomorfic about muffins fanwork? Because that's on the archive. There's also some stuff under "anthropomorphism" that's just straight up talking animal stories. I agree stuff that isn't meta doesn't belong there as meta, but it's like banning fanfic because some people will post I DREAMED ABOUT DRACO MARRYING ME LAST NIGHT the end.
|
|
|
Post by Puck on Oct 5, 2012 16:24:25 GMT
Hmm, I'd be tempted to report the 'I dreamed I married Draco last night!' "fic", ngl, but I'm not sure how that'd turn out. Anyway, I don't personally like meta on the archive, but if it's being considered a valid fanwork then AO3 needs to put up guidelines on what exactly qualifies as meta. Are a series of gifspams allowed under meta? Is a discussion of how what you did at the park today <i>totally</i> reminded you of your OTP because X, Y, Z, meta? If so, how would an AO3 entry be any different from an LJ or DW entry? It loses it's position as an exclusive fanwork archive, where I can get the fic without the ick. (That said, vid and art and podfics being clearly separate categories would be a very very welcome change.)
|
|
elf
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by elf on Oct 5, 2012 16:27:50 GMT
I'd love the archive to allow meta. I think meta is just as much a fanwork as fic, art, vids, and filk... it's part of how we react and relate to fandom. If "archiving the culture of fandom" is important, we need a meta archive just as much as we need a fic archive. And unlike fic, there are very few meta archives in other places, and AFAIK they're all sharply limited by topic. There's no "general fannish meta" communities or forums.
Meta has less copyright issues than fic. But then, fic of public-domain fandoms has no copyright issues at all.
And yeah, there'd probably be some "I think [X] is the greatest fandom ever, because hot guys omg, I can't believe how hot they are" posts. But we already get single haiku posted as fic, and plenty of drabbles. The archive doesn't police quality in any other category; there's no reason it should single meta out as being somehow bad-for-the-archive if poorly-written squee shows up on the "recent works" page.
|
|
|
Post by A on Oct 5, 2012 16:44:12 GMT
Are a series of gifspams allowed under meta? Is a discussion of how what you did at the park today <i>totally</i> reminded you of your OTP because X, Y, Z, meta? If so, how would an AO3 entry be any different from an LJ or DW entry? Do you think meta means every possible thing that isn't fic and so the only way to keep that out is to impose standards on what quality is accepted? Instead of pearl-clutching about how meta will be opening the floodgates to people posting anything, why not just ban posting completely irrelevant bullshit regardless of if it's tagged "meta" or "fic" or "fanart"? Do you think the journal entries would be any less annoying if they were called "autobiography"?
|
|
|
Post by Puck on Oct 5, 2012 17:08:56 GMT
@a
Do you think meta means every possible thing that isn't fic and so the only way to keep that out is to impose standards on what quality is accepted?
Did I use the word "quality" anywhere, oh person not clutching pearls? And no, I don't consider every possible thing that isn't fic, meta, which is why I'd require the archive to clarify what it means when it says posting meta is allowed. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of content.
Even now, when no official stance on meta in known, there are plenty of people posting (all things actually having been posted) - requests for betas and lists of pairings the user likes (just lists from all over different fandoms), out of maybe 5 pieces of non-fic possible meta I've seen.
Allowing free-form tags meant a escalation to tumblr-type tagging, largely lamented in terms of archive functionality - why do you think another lack of guidelines (when fandom is increasingly moving towards the tumblr-style of fandoming) would result only in reasonable as-intended usage? Seems way more optimistic than previous experience would suggest.
|
|
|
Post by an0n on Oct 5, 2012 17:17:45 GMT
Now that I think about it some more, maybe I do support some kind of guidelines about what meta is if only because the term itself is kind of opaque. I didn't know what it was before getting into LJ based fandom. Is it a term used in different fan cultures?
But if they do draw up some kind of guideline, I would hope they make the definition as broad-ranging as absolutely possible, because yes, I do think a series of gifs can be a piece of meta. (Maybe it's a visual representation of different characters and they ways they physically react to a situation; maybe it's a visual representation of how the character's costume has evolved over the years... you get the idea)
|
|
|
Post by an0n on Oct 5, 2012 17:19:16 GMT
ETA: Not to suggest fans off LJ/DW don't meta, just that they might use a different term for that kind of fan activity.
|
|
elf
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by elf on Oct 5, 2012 17:42:02 GMT
Before the term "meta" caught on on LJ, those kinds of post were usually just called "essays." The Fanfiction Symposium is a meta archive: "A symposium is a collection of essays on a similar topic (it's also a party involving feasting and drinking, but we won't go there). The topic in this case is fan fiction...." I don't think there's another single term that encompasses the LJ-ish concept of "meta." There may be terms specific to some fandoms, though, and they could be published under the label "rants" or "editorials," depending on the venue. Reviews, I suppose, are a form of meta.
|
|