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Post by Wrangler Dash on Dec 15, 2012 9:07:39 GMT
A bunch of information and explanation about Additional/Freeform Tags is up here: archiveofourown.org/admin_posts/266The entire wrangling ML got a chance to look it over and give feedback. I know I like the result. What about you?
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Post by a nonnie on Dec 15, 2012 22:02:48 GMT
I'm really happy that they say in comments that they're looking at ways to make it optional for users to hide single use tags. That's probably my number one wish for the moment. But when you look at that post alongside this one - archiveofourown.org/admin_posts/267 you can see how much the archive relies on keeping their volunteer pool. As the additional tags are increasing faster (as per those graphs posted a while back) it stands to reason that they'll need more volunteers as time goes by. And the wranglers on my flist and getting increasingly burnt out and frustrated by the attitude of "it'll all work out, we'll always have plenty of people." The things they say when they talk about what could happen if wrangling stops at some point make no sense at all. The search/browse functions would be a complete mess and readers would find it very hard to find fics. The example they give "Fullmetal Alchemist", "Full Metal Alchemist", and "Hagaren is a bit of a smokescreen. It wouldn't be three different tags, you'd have to make individual searches for all the many different ways fans tag a fandom, and that doesn't even count the misspelled or oddly formatted tags. The fact that they'd continue to allow free tagging if wrangling fell apart is a really bad idea. But it seems like they aren't willing to even consider making a change to their original plans and the T&Cs. Now that the side bar filters only show the top ten, search is much faster, but browsing is much more limited. You can use the tag landing pages, but for popular characters the child tags lists have already grown past the 300 limit of visible tags. That problems is made worse by having all the different combinations of a tag showing up on a list Sam/Dean Dean/Sam, Sam/Winchester/Dean Winchester, sam/dean, sam/dean (sort of) to give a small example. If freeform tagging is to continue in it's current form (and let's face it, there's no chance of getting anyone to reconsider the format) then much better filters and browsing options are needed. As good as the new search is, you can only search for something if you know it exists. I've seen post after post lately of people saying they only read at AO3 if someone recs a fic, because browsing is just too much of a mess. If the archive doesn't shift the balance of it's priorities away from writer's freedom, to reader's useability at least slightly, then they're going to continue to put people off. A good archive should balance the needs of posters and users, but from the outside it looks like AO3 has weighted their balance 90:10 in favour of the posters.
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Post by EP on Dec 18, 2012 6:49:43 GMT
The impression I get is that "wrangling permanently falls apart" is not something they anticipate or are planning for. "Wrangling is temporarily disabled" (as happened recently, for about a month) is the kind of thing they have in mind.
You make a good point about FMA being a bad example. Here are all the fandom tags currently synned with "Fullmetal Alchemist" right now:
FMA - Fandom fmab Full Metal Alchemist Fullmetal Aclhemist Fullmetal Alcheimst Fullmetal Alchemist (original anime) Fullmetal Alchemist AU - Mashup Fullmetal Alchemist First Anime Fullmetal Alchemist/Hagane no renkinjutsushi Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Fullmetal Alchemist: Conqueror of Shamballa Fullmetal Alchemistf Fullmetal Alchemistmetal Alchemist Fullmetal Alchemist
Fulmetal Alchemist No Fandom Alchemist Fullmetal Alchemist
(Ugh, the typos...)
A search for "Fullmetal" would nab you all but four, which is close. Still, anyone who tries to type out the whole title is going to be missing a lot, and I don't know how a random user could possibly get to the poor "No Fandom Alchemist" story without some connections made behind-the-scenes.
IA that merged tags should be hidden somehow from the child tag lists. They clutter everything up.
Do you have any opinions on specific things they could do with the filters? I'm used to being in small fandoms where it's not hard to read All The Fic, so I've never had much use for the function.
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Post by nonniesock on Dec 19, 2012 13:34:04 GMT
I know I really miss being able to see all the fandoms, pairings and additional tags. They were really helpful for browsing. I understand that the old sidebar filter was causing too heavy a load. But I'd love to be able to open those lists in a separate page if I wanted to. The site wouldn't have to generate the list every time someone clicked on a fandom tag, but it'd be nice to have the option to at least see all the tags associated weith a fandom if you wanted to.
Search is great, but you have to know something exists before you can search for it.
Take crossovers, not everyone uses a freeform crossover tag, so when I go looking for them it's easy to end up missing some. If you knew a crossover exists you could plug both fandoms into the filter, but you have to know it's there to do that. Now you might check all the big fandoms one at a time, but there are obscure crossovers that you'd never think to search for if you didn't see the tags.
Same goes for rare pairings, I can use the tag landing pages when i'm checking for a major character, but I often used to read rare pairs that I spotted looking at the pairings list.
Additional tags are the same, i might not think to go looking for a psychic dragons au, but if I saw it existed, i'd be straight there reading.
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